Colonel-General Ivashov: Now there is a choice between forced and unjust war

Journalist Irina Mishina asked Colonel General Leonid Ivashov to comment on this.

- Leonid Grigoryevich, you recently addressed the President on behalf of Russian officers with a demand to abandon the policy of provoking war. You suggested that in the event of such a war, Russia could cease to exist. Is there still a chance to avoid this war today? Or is it inevitable?

- Such military forces as today are not concentrated by chance, they are not driven in vain. There are signs of a possible war. This attitude is visible both on the part of the United States and NATO, and on the part of Russia. Wars are just and unjust. But there are still forced wars. Now there is a choice between a forced war and an unjust one. Recently, in a conversation with Foreign Minister Lavrov, Putin asked if there was a chance for a peaceful settlement. Lavrov replied that such a chance remains. As a pro, I can confirm: in the current situation, there is a chance for a peaceful settlement.

- If you remember the history, many wars started with a provocation. Take the First World War, when the reason was the assassination in Sarajevo of the heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, Archduke Franz Ferdinand. The pretext for the start of hostilities in World War II, Hitler called the capture of the radio station in Gleiwitz by the Poles, which turned out to be a provocation by the SS. Is there still a danger of a provocation that will start a war?

- Provocation is the traditional beginning for most wars. And now there is a danger of provocations. Other parallels can be drawn with the beginning of the Second World War: the highest stage of capitalism is national fascism. Its signs are now visible. In our TV, nationalism is kindled in relation to Ukrainians, in Ukraine - in relation to Russia.

- If the war still starts, what could it lead to?

- If the war acquires a large-scale character, the world will no longer be the same. The old world order has obviously exhausted itself, and redivision will begin. If we recall the results of the First World War, then, as you know, everything ended with an international economic conference in Paris in 1916, when European countries set certain conditions for Russia. Soon after that, the king was overthrown, the empire was destroyed ...

No matter how the war ends, Russia will be squeezed economically, and ordinary people will be forced to bear it on their shoulders. The world is likely to move to a different economic model. Many states will disappear, leaving the "ruling elite" and "service personnel" - "white collars" and hard workers. In the project of the German economist, President of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Klaus Schwab, people should lose their property in general, all their property should go into funds. If there is still a war, the world will definitely change. But these consequences will hit, first of all, ordinary people, you and me. Rising prices, beggarly pensions - all this will be attributed to the war and forced to accept it as a fact.

- Who can be the winner in this war?

There will be no winners in this war. In a nuclear war, they cannot be. Large cities will be kicked out cleanly, many people will die. Nuclear war must be eliminated at all costs. Given the current situation, I have a lot of concerns. After all, our military doctrine assumes the possibility of being the first to use nuclear weapons if there is a threat to national integrity. There will be gigantic casualties in a nuclear war. And all this against the backdrop of a pandemic in which we are leading in excess mortality.

- Now among politicians voices are often heard that this war is necessary to restore the Russian world by annexing Ukraine. Is there any logic in this?

- Join Ukraine? What for? And does this “Russian world” exist? We are no longer the same Russia that was 30 years ago. And there are almost no Russians left in Ukraine, everyone who needs it has left. We ourselves are to blame for the situation when the Slavs went against the Slavs. They themselves were divided into "Ukrovs" and "Muscovites" and began to insult each other on TV and not only. Yesterday I spoke with the deputies, they convinced me that Ukraine should be annexed, and as for the losses, we are “still giving birth”. Yes, we don’t give birth, because the pandemic has mowed down the country, we have almost the highest mortality rate in the world. It's time to think about people, not about the "Russian world".

- A few days ago you wrote an article entitled "There will be no war." Is your thesis still valid today?

- The condition for a peaceful settlement was to be a mutual withdrawal of troops. After the French President and the German Chancellor came to Moscow, the illusion of a diplomatic settlement arose. But Russia began on February 19 strategic exercises with strategic offensive weapons. I thought they would be canceled, it's dangerous. I thought that everything would start after the Beijing Olympics. As a result of the last UN Security Council, everything again came to a standstill. Whether there will be a war or not, it is difficult to say now, because there is no logic and consistency in foreign policy today. We now throw ourselves into the arms of the West, now we threaten it with our fists.